Declined Jailbreak Rule Suggested Changes

[SiriusSkaarsgard]

Team Fortress 2 Jailbreak Rule Suggested Changes

Spoiler: Changes + Removals Template

Changed
Removed

---

#1 Proposed Change: Banned Games/Days

Spoiler: Original Rules

Banned Days/Games

These days/games break a rule/are game breaking and, as such, should not be used.

• Meat Grinder- (Meat Grinder is enabling FF in an area where the REDs will not be reasonably able to navigate and fight each other.)
  • Cell Wars is an exception to this permitting REDs are in their respective spawn cells.
    • Examples of places where FF is okay:
      • Pool.
      • Arena.
    • Examples that are not okay:
      • Medic Bays.
      • Deathrun.
      • Knife Pit.
• Opposite Day. (This is warden stating all of his orders are to be followed to the opposite extent.)
• Shoot or Don't Shoot. (This is asking REDs to choose between a BLU shooting or not shooting another RED.)
• Triangle Game. (Having prisoners stand in a triangle formation and choose a prisoner to die without seeing the other's choices.)
• Peace Day. (Turning on FF and telling REDs not to kill each other.)
• Trust Fund. (If one RED rebels, other REDs are KoS as a result.)
• Armory Tour.
• Ben's 9 Square. (Restricting squares in Crush/Crash Game in any way.)
• One Podium Sweeper.
• Any form of racing.
  • This includes orders such as "First RED to the end of obby receives LR."
• Any days regarding looking.
  • This includes "look up day," "look down day," etc.

Spoiler: Change/Removed

• Any days regarding looking.
  • This includes "look up day," "look down day," etc

Spoiler: Reasoning

The reasoning to my choice of removing this is to allow for abit more freedom for jailbreak to be more interested and the warden to have some more options. It is quit boring when you can only do 1 of 15 things every game. This makes the game feel stagnate

---

#2 Proposed Change: Warden Rules

Spoiler: Original Rules

1. • The warden must have a clear, tolerable/satisfactory microphone.
   • Commands only apply if said through voice-chat.
     • The only exception is asking questions through warden chat.
   • Wardens aren't allowed on Freedays.
   • Friendly fire, such as Cell Wars, is permitted but can only be used every three rounds.
   • The warden cannot give orders to force the death of a player. This includes but is not limited to:
     • Ordering to go into an active mini-game.
     • Running into a death pit.
   • The warden cannot give impossible orders.
     • Trick orders are allowed, however.
   • Wardens may only use built in map features as part of any order/game. Sprays, lasers, etc may not be used.
   • The warden cannot lie.
     • This applies to actual orders. Wardens stating that today is Thursday while being Friday does not constitute a punishment.
   • The warden must give one repeat per order unless a RED doesn't request it.
     • Warden does not have to say if days are active outside of repeats.
   • Orders such as "whoever jumps first gets LR" are banned.
   • Wardens must comply with an LR. There are a few exceptions, however:
     • If the custom last request requires the warden to say a word/sentence after every order, etc, the warden can decide if they want to perform the custom last request.
     • The custom last request cannot include something that might break the server rules/or Jailbreak rules; doing this kind of last request will be ignored.
     • Last request does not transfer over maps. Ignore any custom last request given from the last map.
   • Warden may not rename REDs to words similar in pronunciation (e.g. "breads," "beds," "ribs," etc.).
     • Similarly, the warden may not use these words as part of a trick order.
   • REDs must be allowed a method of communication. You cannot forbid them from speaking both in chat and in mic.
     • Similarly, you cannot tell them to crouch the whole day, therefore, meaning they can't chat, then order them to not speak on mic.
     • During activities that require significant use of your keyboards (crouch day, jump day, etc.), REDs must be allowed the use of their mics.
   • The last warden’s order overrides all previous orders if the order contradicts them, except during a day. Warden days override orders.
   • Orders with multiple negatives are not permitted.
   • Warden hogging is forbidden. All BLUs must be given a chance to go warden.
   • The last standing warden may choose if he wants to kill all RED team players or if he wants to finish the round without being last guard.
     • However, once warden picks one, they must commit to it. Wardens must also !uw (unwarden) if they plan to kill all.
     • The warden must !uw (unwarden) right away and not give any further orders, otherwise it is assumed they're continuing the round.
   • Guard Slay is an ability given to the warden to slay rule-breakers. Slaying BLUs who are not rule-breaking is strictly prohibited. BLUs may not be slain for offenses done in previous rounds with the exception of repeated mass freekillers.
     • Staff may allow/disallow vote-slaying when they are online at their discretion.

Spoiler: Changed/Removed

• The last warden’s orders override all previous orders if they contradicts them, exceptions to this rule would be any days or defined terms by the warden.
• he last standing warden may choose if he wants to kill all RED team players or if he wants to finish the round without being last guard.
• However, once warden picks one, they must commit to it. Wardens must also !uw (unwarden) if they plan to kill all.
• The warden must !uw (unwarden) right away and not give any further orders, otherwise it is assumed they're continuing the round.

Spoiler: Reasoning

I find it quite boring when you define something and give something that contradicts it as a trick order to see who will fall for it but the rules restrict this making the game somewhat bland with less freedom to the warden.

---

You may also add to this suggestion. I'd love to see what everyone thinks of it.

 

[Adam[BIRD MAFIA]]

I wouldnt want look up day allowed again since It is always annoying and unfun for the reds and makes blues able to kill reds for not doing orders even if the reds cant even see the marker/line they are trying to go to. I never liked any look days since being forced to look somewhere makes it hard to see (especially 360 day).

 

[SiriusSkaarsgard]

What if we add some restrictions to it instead of banning it outright.

 

[nforce]

• The last warden’s orders override all previous orders if they contradicts them, exceptions to this rule would be any days or defined terms by the warden.
• he last standing warden may choose if he wants to kill all RED team players or if he wants to finish the round without being last guard.
• However, once warden picks one, they must commit to it. Wardens must also !uw (unwarden) if they plan to kill all.
• The warden must !uw (unwarden) right away and not give any further orders, otherwise it is assumed they're continuing the round.

there's not necessarily a direct link between these two, why are you trying to remove the lgka one?

 

[SiriusSkaarsgard]

There is no direct link to each other besides being in the same category. I think if you are warden and your guards die you should not be given the ability to become last guard or if you are last guard and choose to become warden you then have committed to becoming warden. This should not be a thing in the first place. If you think it could have been an accident then you could change it to be where within 10 Seconds of becoming Warden as last guard you can unwarden to become last guard and kill all. But I think that should go in the guard rules rather than the warden rules.

 

[SiriusSkaarsgard]

#3 Proposal

Spoiler: Original Segments

General Rules

1. Rebels can be pardoned (save it not being favoritism/last RED).
   • They are auto pardoned if it went away and no one saw them with a rebel status .

Last Requests

1. Custom LRs cannot break server rules (MFK Day, etc.)
   • Custom LRs cannot be LRs already in the LR Menu (Hide and Seek, etc.)

Banned Games/Days

1. Any days regarding looking.
   • This includes "look up day," "look down day," etc.

Warden Rules

1. The last warden’s order overrides all previous orders if the order contradicts them, except during a day. Warden days override orders.
2. The last standing warden may choose if he wants to kill all RED team players or if he wants to finish the round without being last guard.
   • However, once warden picks one, they must commit to it. Wardens must also !uw (unwarden) if they plan to kill all.
   • The warden must !uw (unwarden) right away and not give any further orders, otherwise it is assumed they're continuing the round.

Guard/Blue Team Rules

1. Last Guard Rule - The last guard must either kill the remaining REDs or continue the round (go warden).
   • No LR may be given if the guard chooses to kill.
   • Last Guard does not mean only BLU. At least one BLU must have died after a round start for this to apply.

Spoiler: Addition/Changed/Removed

Spoiler: Changes Reference

Additions
Changes
Removals

General Rules

1. Rebels can be pardoned (save it not being favoritism/last RED).
   • They are auto pardoned if it went away and no one saw them with a rebel status .
   • Reds that killed the warden can not be pardon, exception to the warden dyeing from baiting excluding force baiting.
2. Days that involve looking are allowed but with limitations.
   • Days that involve looking may not be used in active mini games or obstacle course minigames.
   • Look Days can be only used every 2 round. (Using it one round means you have to wait 2 rounds to use such an order again.)

Last Requests

1. Custom LRs cannot break server rules (MFK Day, etc.)
   • Custom LRs cannot be LRs already in the LR Menu (Hide and Seek, etc.)
   • Custom LRs that are minigame based with other modifiers is allow up to 2 times in a row.

Banned Games/Days

1. Any days regarding looking.
   • This includes "look up day," "look down day," etc.​

Guard/Blue Team Rules

1. Last Guard Rule - The last guard must either kill the remaining REDs or continue the round (go warden).
   • No LR may be given if the guard chooses to kill.
   • Last Guard does not mean only BLU. At least one BLU must have died after a round start for this to apply.
   • Last Guard has 10 seconds after going warden and not presenting any orders to unwarden. After 10 seconds they are acknowledging they are willing to give orders as warden.

Warden Rules

1. The last standing warden may choose if he wants to kill all RED team players or if he wants to finish the round without being last guard.
   • However, once warden picks one, they must commit to it. Wardens must also !uw (unwarden) if they plan to kill all.
   • The warden must !uw (unwarden) right away and not give any further orders, otherwise it is assumed they're continuing the round.
2. The last warden’s orders override all previous orders if they contradicts them, exceptions to this rule would be any days or defined terms by the warden.

I have gone through again and changed up things within the rules. I broke it down so it is easier to read and understand. The Changes Reference will show you what was added, what was changed, and what was removed. I also provide the individual points I referenced in my changes.

 

[Eight]

Spoiler: Previous discussion on Discord

I see your point but for defined terms in my opinion if defining a term such as AFK Freeze is defined as AFK and AFM. This can be used or Defining Cheating.
This can be used for a verity of more trick orders and freedom within the warden to give orders allowing for more things to occur on such boring maps (Minecraft)

The issue is that, from my experience at PBFortress, there's no clear line between what a warden intends to be contradicted and what they don't, like "Stairs are KoS" example I gave. I don't think it'd add anything for us to allow the warden to define terms that aren't contradicted by orders, as you can already do that with days.

Maybe but I prefer defining terms rather than saying a day as I can use such a term in the future rather than it be a day where it is always active.

Well, if it's always active, then isn't it doing what any other defined term would do? Otherwise a day, nor any other term, would contradict orders.

Because We had someone using custom LRs to make a mini game hard which ended up resulting in him winning 4 times in a row, three of which where sweeper all day but jump backwards to each player pedestal.

The LR was done four times in a row? I'd say that, after three times, the LR was rule-breaking.

From the Jailbreak rules (General Jail Rules #3), "The same day/round may not be run more [than] three times in a row."

I have no real problem with outright banning in your meaning but I'd prefer it to somewhat exist allowing for abit of a spice in gameplay.

I see what you mean, however, I think that keeping it outright banned is simpler and, therefore, way more easier to enforce than two specific rulings on it.

I added this to allow for people to unwarden if they accidently go warden. This was also in hand when I decided to remove the rule allowing warden to go last guard and kill all.

I think, as long as the BLU player clarifies they went warden by mistake, and they don't give any orders, then they're fine to go ahead and kill all without us needing to add any rulings. As for us removing the ruling that warden can unwarden and kill all, I personally don't mind this, however, I have heard complaints for it in the past, so I'd like to hear arguments for removing it.

I could agree with that as well. We could make people rebelling against blues as KOS and non pardonable but then again Warden is only taken up by those who are willing to try. Not many people are willing to go warden and are decent at it.

While I personally find wardens who pardon a lot to be annoying, I'm iffy on if we should restrict pardoning this way, since it seems like players generally like the freedom they have with pardoning currently.

 

[SiriusSkaarsgard]

Spoiler: Previous discussion on Discord

The issue is that, from my experience at PBFortress, there's no clear line between what a warden intends to be contradicted and what they don't, like "Stairs are KoS" example I gave. I don't think it'd add anything for us to allow the warden to define terms that aren't contradicted by orders, as you can already do that with days.

I see your example but it wouldn't apply to allowing terms to be defined by the warden and how it relates as defining a term can be different. (Ex. Cheating is defined as jumping) Assuming this is his defined term and he tells you to bum rush through obby then it would be a contradictive order. This could be considered a trick order. If a warden fails to recall his definitions for things that can be used as trick orders then that is simply their fault. To say something like Stairs are KOS is not defining a term it is an order that can be overturned if another order occurs and there is a conflict between each.

Well, if it's always active, then isn't it doing what any other defined term would do? Otherwise a day, nor any other term, would contradict orders.

Defining a term is different from stating a day and defining the context of the day. The day is always active, a defined terms is only active to the order you place it within such as AFK freeze being defined as AFK and AFM but using it in different orders. It is not active all the time meaning people can move to a place and lets say they have to AFK freeze upon arrival. This would mean that the term can be used when the warden sees fit. A day can be seen as a blanket use order making it last until it is over now allowing it to be used selectively.

The LR was done four times in a row? I'd say that, after three times, the LR was rule-breaking.

Like I said, it was done 3 times but only 2 in a row while being the third time they used another day but almost the same. This was a way around it being illegal.

From the Jailbreak rules (General Jail Rules #3), "The same day/round may not be run more [than] three times in a row."

Three times is the cap, I was suggesting a cap for custom LRs that used minigames and adding modifiers such as jumping backwards more than 2 times in a row meaning they can't do sweeper 2 times and crush game to go back to sweeper again.

I see what you mean, however, I think that keeping it outright banned is simpler and, therefore, way more easier to enforce than two specific rulings on it.

I will agree that keeping it outright banned is simpler and I don't see a problem with it but I'd like to see what others think as well. I suggested it as it was somewhat disliked but adding a different point of view on it. I wanted to see what others thought and what they could possibly add to this suggestion thread.

I think, as long as the BLU player clarifies they went warden by mistake, and they don't give any orders, then they're fine to go ahead and kill all without us needing to add any rulings. As for us removing the ruling that warden can unwarden and kill all, I personally don't mind this, however, I have heard complaints for it in the past, so I'd like to hear arguments for removing it.

I personally think that Warden is not a guard and show not have the power to decide to not give anymore orders and kill all reds when one of the reds might have been close to getting LR. They went warden and for them to have a way out of being warden to kill all could be abused easily.

While I personally find wardens who pardon a lot to be annoying, I'm iffy on if we should restrict pardoning this way, since it seems like players generally like the freedom they have with pardoning currently.

I see your point and I agree with that. I am willing to let that part of my suggest go as I did not think about it that way. It giving warden more freedom to how they can pardon reds.

 

[MintBrando]

The last warden’s orders override all previous orders if they contradicts them, exceptions to this rule would be any days or defined terms by the warden.

bye bye trick orders

 

[SiriusSkaarsgard]

bye bye trick orders

I don't understand your point, are you trying to make fun of the change?

 

[MintBrando]

I don't understand your point, are you trying to make fun of the change?

No, I do not stand with your suggestion(s)

 

[Kyo]

Any days regarding looking.

• This includes "look up day," "look down day," etc

I don't like that rule to be removed as it is not fun for reds. If that thing wasn't against the rules at the first place, the wardens would just keep doing look days on minigames or warden marker orders like look up day, other thoughts are brought up by @Adam[BIRD MAFIA] so -1

for other suggestions, I'll vote the same as eight.

 

[Eight]

I have added a poll. Please vote if you think all, some, or none of the suggestions should be added, or if they should be added with a few changes (the other option). This poll will be open for a week, and after that week, I'll check the results and make a decision from there. Please don't vote randomly.

 

[DiscountIvy]

I want the days regarding looking switched, I've got no idea why in the hell they would be banned in the first place.

 

[Eight]

I want the days regarding looking switched, I've got no idea why in the hell they would be banned in the first place.

If I remember correctly, they were banned because they were very tedious and unfun for the REDs, and they also could easily cause issues for REDs during minigames and certain orders.

Anyway, declined due to majority opposition to all changes.